Participate Fees

[amh27]

None us in the community wanted the day to come when we needed Pay to Play or participation fees, however all of our neighboring school has at least a participation fee for school activities and we must look to our neighbors and see what they are doing and follow and learn for them. Our best, academic and athletic talented students will just persue residence in their communities and we all loose in the end.

[cchsmom]

Pay to Play is an option! But as a band parent, we already pay to play. What about those students?

[sp]

Band is not the only activity that the students pay to be a part of. I know that students who participate in athletics also pay to cover uniforms and other necessary items. The $2.5 million that the district has cut for extracurriculars was made up of primarily wages and benefits. There was another small chunk for transportation but I believe the figure was $1.9 or $2.0 million for wages and benefits if I remember the information that Garside sent me when I requested the breakdown. Every student deserves to participate if their family wants to make the effort to gather the necessary funds. At the same time as one of the speakers stated last night, not every activity has the same costs associated with it so there should be a tiered approach to the fees depending on the activity. For example - what costs (other than a portion of teacher salaries) could there be for National Honor Society and Student Council?

[msuchar]

I am confused... So if most of this is wages then why cant the coaches of these teams work with us as well? I can't believe that my child will not cheer her last year because a coach wont take a little less money.

[cchsmom]

Wages and benefits!! Hmmmmm..... I have to ponder on this for a few...ok, here goes. This is my opinion and my opinion only, I believe the teachers and staff have awesome benefits and pay, not to say they are not deserving, but many of us have taken cuts in these times. I believe that insurance and such should be reviewed and possibly cut in some form. I was also under the impression that teachers receive bonuses for their progress on the OGT's, etc. Can anyone verify or dispute that?

[msuchar]

I still just cant believe this.....

[austin]

I just asked someone who would know and they said there are no bonuses to teachers on OGT passage, etc.

Here's my question with P2P. Let's say a coach says to a group of kids who want to play, "Kids, in order to play, you all need to come up with $300, so let's start fundraising. Here is a list of things you can do." So "Student A" goes out and sells giftwrap and subs to every person and their brother and they raise the $300. Let's also say that unfortunately, "Student A" is not really "athlete material" and would normally not even make the team (a LOT of kids try out for teams and don't make them - my own kids have been cut when they thought they would easily make it).

[cchsmom]

Austin, at CCHS, my children have never been involved in any activity that they could be cut from. My kids have been involved with football, track and band, they never had a "Try Out". Everyone was welcome to join. Perhaps it is different at some of the other schools, but you have a very valid point.

[austin]

My eldest son was cut from Brookpark basketball and one of my younger guys was cut from basketball at the middle school level. Now everybody was welcome to run track and they all did that. I understand that GCHS band does not take about 50 kids every year of all of those who try out.

[friendofswcs]

Info from SWCS website: www.swcs.k12.oh.us/

If band parents already pay $800 for their child to compete, why is this being cut?
High school music and band programs still cost the district more than $280,000 in extra-curricular costs. The costs parents pay is for consumable items, competitions and the upkeep of uniforms.

Why doesn’t the district institute a pay-to-play system for sports and extra-curricular activities?
ALL children deserve equal opportunity to the programs offered by the district. The board was elected to advocate for all 21,000 students and their futures. We cannot protect just some students. We’re here to protect and provide for all students equally. During the 2007-08 school year, high school sports alone cost the district $1.5 million not including middle school sports and other extra-curricular activities. The total cost for these programs is $2.5 million after gate receipts, donations, and all fundraising activities. The cost per activity in a pay to participate system varies based on the number of participants. Based on 3,500 participants, the cost per activity would average about $720 per activity. If the number of participants decreased the fee would need to increase.

Why don’t staff members take pay cuts?
All of our staff members have agreed to extend their current contracts for the 2009-2010 school year with no base salary increase and will be returning to the negotiations table in 2010. Our teachers are already in the bottom third in compensation in Franklin County.

[lateach]

There is an additional consideration regarding "pay to participate." Recent court rulings have ascertained that students who qualify for free or reduced lunch at school are exempt from all other fees as well. This would, of course, include "pay to participate." So after a particular cost per activity was determined - and this would be calculated as the post above notes - and students are charged for that fee, any student who qualifies for free or reduced lunch and wants to "participate" in an activity, s/he would have her/his fee waived - and that fee would then have to be covered by the district. This is precisely the sort of cost the board is seeking to avoid. It is one which cannot be calculated until tryouts or meetings begin. According to figures from last school year, the number of students who qualify for free or reduced lunch at my middle school approaches 70% - that is up from 38% in 2001. The potential for a major expense on the part of the board for these students is great.

Ohio is a collective bargaining state. All three employee groups in SWCS collectively bargain their wages and benefits (and also work conditions). The Board cannot simply impose a freeze or cuts in any of these. These are bargained and mutually agreed to at the bargaining table, in a process prescribed by federal law.

[cougar82]

At the Central Crossing meeting I had requested the BOE to look into and consider P2P. At the board meeting after the CC meeting I turned into Cathy Johnson 10 pages of a petition for the board to consider P2P for the 2009-2010 school year. These papers with 2000 signatures was put aside and never considered for when Cathy Johnson. Then she said P2P would not be considered. A committee could of been formed to designate for each activitiy how much would be required for the P2P to be implemented. I had asked this at the CC meeting. I also stated that we could start fundraisers, letter campaigns, booster clubs could of been organizing to assist those who needed help. I know several schools that I mentioned within my speech that implemented p2p and their numbers were not greatly effected. Their p2p cost have also declined over the years. One such district was where I grew up and was an athlete. They sent letters to all the alumni, band, ROTC, all the clubs to ask you to sponsor an athlete. I sponsored a hurdler. There were ways to cover the cost for those who needed assistance but for the majority of the students they would of reached if not surpassed their fundraising goals. P2p was at least an option for the community it's better than having kids drive 20 to 40 minutes away, having parents concerned about how their younger kids will get to school, and teachers/coaches losing their jobs. The other disturbing piece of information I found out was that the majority of the coaches had requested the board not to pay them as long as the activities remained intact. This only demonstrates that the BOE did use the kids as leverage.

[austin]

Not implemented does not equal "not considered". I have children in the district and I'm sorry, but do not agree with your assessment as kids as leverage.

I heard your impassioned speech in favor of P2P, I think. I understand your position. There is another side of it. I know you feel really strongly and I do not want to start an argument, but I know many coaches in the district and not one of them has mentioned, during the many conversations that I have had with them this summer, that they actually approached the board and requested no payment, although I don't doubt that some of them would be willing. Majority? I don't know about that. I'd have to see some documentation about that.

Also, what about the schools without booster organizations? Franklin Heights has no athletic booster organization at all. Who would sponsor those student athletes? Those of us familiar with that portion of the district were and remain very concerned about that population. One basketball coach over that way told me that if P2P was reality, last year only four of his players would have been able to afford it, assuming the fee was between $200 and $300. And that is a very low estimate based upon participation and total cost of the program. I believe Mr. Garside indicated it would probably be more in the $700 range.

It may be that P2P becomes some part of what the eventual solution is, but it is not a panacea solution.

Now is the time to look forward to what can be accomplished. We can argue over what coulda/shoulda/woulda happened all day. Let's try to find solutions.

[matt.demana]

What I wonder about is this $720 participation fee they mention. Now for some programs I can see how perhaps a high fee near that amount might be necessary to run it. But for other programs, not so much. What about National Honor Society, for example? They perform some volunteer work in the community and don't really require that high of a budget. For example, at Westland I know that they hold a fundraiser each year to cover the costs of dues for each student in the National Honor Society. Similar situation for Key Club too, who perform service in the community. Sure, there is a stipend for the teacher who advises the group, but it's not like they're paid outrageously high bonuses for doing that. And of course there is a fee for keeping the building open, but that would be shared across all extra-curricular activities.

I just don't see how the numbers add up. I think it would be nice to see some more specific and detailed numbers from the Board or treasurer to ascertain how exactly they came up with this $720. Maybe it is correct, maybe it isn't, I don't pretend to know. But we can't really tell unless we have more information.

[austin]

At the time, matt, Mr. Garside was taking the total cost of extra-curriculars and dividing that by the number of participants. I don't really think it would shake out to that much for some of the activities that you mention, such as National Honor Society and Key Club. However, now I think we would have a lot fewer participants because of some students not being able to afford it, and because of all of the students who have now left the district. I would imagine that most of those who left were students who participated in extra-curriculars.